主题：【讨论】ZEISS/LEO电镜用户的反馈

Z；

呵呵,我觉得任心大侠哗众取宠的闹剧该停止了吧.你好象很针对戈懿做些人身攻击,我想无外呼这两个原因,要么嫉妒戈与ZEISS上层的赏识,要么是嫉妒在国内ZEISS领域内的地位.所以恶意操纵论坛恶毒攻击甚至漫骂.以实现自己在SEM圈内的影响力.我想手法实在有些拙劣可笑.其实完全不需要这样,你有能力就多做些事情造福大家,工程师还是要少耍嘴皮多做事.京油卫嘴的名声不要带到SEM圈里来.
还有就是拿人家刚接触SEM时没做好的案子来搬弄是非,也实在难以让人信服你比人家高明哪里去.来日方长大家拭目以待,敬候任大侠的大作为.


R；


鸵鸟以为自己将头插入进了沙子，别人就不知道他藏在那里了。以这个方式来形容某电镜界的做维修的南郭先生可谓再合适不过了。
上海新康电子公司，隶属于中国科学院上海微系统与信息技术研究所，这样的窗口单位重要性也不言而寓，使用一台ZEISS的六硼化镧灯丝的扫描电镜。
这台电镜由于主人的精心维护和保护，至今还在正常运转。这个客户不仅自己善待电镜，就连对待挑选电镜的维修工程师也是非常慎重的。正因为如此，这台电镜才逃脱了南郭先生的魔爪。
当南郭先生高姿态出场后，一通嘴皮子并没有赢得客户的任何信任和好感，电镜的问题出在真空系统，当真空抽了很长时间之后，仍然没有任何容许电镜打开灯丝的迹象，很明显如果没有泄漏的话，应该是电镜系统内部的内锁保护出了问题，各厂家的内锁设计不同，只有厂家人员最清楚。
南郭先生拿了万用表一通地量，最后也说不出个所以然来，又使出了所谓的南郭风格，一个劲地向客户表示好态度，又答应客户会向ZEISS专家请教，尽快回来解决问题，溜之大吉。
客户接着跟我讲：之后，南郭先生一直指使其同事来修机器，自己尽量推托不来，其同事轮换着走马灯似的，一直进进出出了两个星期，最后南郭先生聚集了所有同事到场会诊，仍然对电镜的诊断说得似是而非。
客户急着使用仪器，试着给安装这台电镜的方碧钦先生打了一个电话，没想到一通不到十分钟的电话，比南郭一伙两个星期还管用。老方指挥客户遥控操作，问题即刻得到了解决，原来是一供电信号不能正常通过一电子开关/继电器。
老方让这个客户先用跳线临时使电镜内锁打开，后来马上送来了配件，问题得到了彻底解决。
药到病除，会者不难。
客户说南郭先生是假鬼子，懂得不多，只会耍嘴皮子，以后就再也没有叫他们动过机器，他还庆幸亏了这莫做了，否则机器让他们动了，还不知道会什莫德行了。
南郭先生听了这个自己的故事又会怎莫想呢？以其脸皮之厚，还真是不好想象。

清华大学的国内引进的头一批ZEISS热场发射扫描电镜也被这位南郭先生给糟蹋了，由于预算原因，至今这台电镜的最关键的光阑还是在翻转的状态工作，每天来做实验的来自天南海北的慕名客很多，客户对此除了无比尴尬之外，只有用痛心疾首来形容，对此南郭先生对ZEISS的贡献可谓不能再大了。
众所周知，场发射电镜对电子束流的主要约束控制手段之一就是光阑，ZEISS的光阑设计是电磁对中式的，这种设计的优点除了可对光阑对中合轴做最精确的控制之外，而且操作手感好，应该是ZEISS很引以为傲的设计之一。
光阑有正反面之分，可以用肉眼辨别，光阑又在高真空之中，更是需要专业人士来更换不可，也就是为什莫著名的清华大学要和这位南郭先生发生关系的原因了。
南郭风格就是利用笑脸和超好态度以尽快速度蒙骗客户签字，由于电镜工作的复杂性，在短时间之内能够看出工程师工作问题的几率是较小的，憨厚的客户可能从工程师的言行上出发，奈于南郭先生的超好态度，轻率地签下了字。
除了图像质量很差之外，被装反了的光阑还会导致束流强度的不确定性，对于工程师来讲，除了良心泯灭之外，只有白痴才会一眼从灯丝像看不出光阑反了。
可是对于不知情的客户来讲，可就不那末容易了。这个客户一天突发灵感，从ZEISS安装手册中抄下正确的灯丝像，然后将这张纸翻转，突然发现纸上的灯丝像终于和电镜实际的像吻合了！！！
南郭先生的嘴脸终于暴露了。请南郭先生自费去清华大学更正自己的罪行，好不好!!!


inca；


莫名其妙，没看懂，怎么蔡司的和蔡司的打起来了？哪位高人解释一下？内讧？落井下石？一地鸡毛............戈懿是谁？？？？？？
________________________________________

R；

您问的此人其实是混进电镜界的一个自命不凡的小辈，其实他已经在这个帖子里自我介绍数次了。
他自认为虽然客户对其极为不满，但自己很会欺上瞒下，还是能受到所谓ZEISS上层的赏识,使那些更加自以为是的德国人认为自己再国内ZEISS领域内拥有所谓其实并不存在的地位。
他还自我介绍是一个地域歧视主义者，认为北京人是“京油“，天津人是“卫嘴“，他忘记了很多有真才实学的电镜界名人都是来自这两个地方的,还有他自己所属的上海又该叫做什莫呢？
还有他还认为有人拿他刚接触SEM时没做好的案子来搬弄是非,那就是他也承认自己有很多案子做得很差，但是他脸皮太厚，还是咬紧牙关死不认账。
我会继续列举其所犯罪行，不是他所为初期的案例，是很近期的，看他还有什莫话讲。

这里有一个现成的案例，这位贼喊捉贼的ZEISS ENGINEER曾经冠冕堂皇地讲过，自己不会再跟贴，一定要保护ZEISS品牌，多莫大义凛然，可是一转眼，自己又食言而肥，马上跳出来撒泼似地发表了以上一贴。
这个案例其实是其真实嘴脸的具体体现，不只自我暴露了此人的一贯作风，出尔反尔，而且口气中充斥着‘骑驴看唱本-走着瞧‘的地痞口气，而且自封在国内电镜界颇有地位，深受ZEISS赏识之类的令人作呕的自我陶醉的暴发户行径，他其实缺的就是一滩*，也可以权当镜子一用。
只要此人还在电镜界招摇撞骗，只要他胆敢在受过他蒙骗和现有，甚至潜在的ZEISS客户面前出现，我都会不遗余力地揭露他，让其享受其早就应该受到的唾弃的待遇。
如果不幸与其见面，我会见一次打一次，见十次打十次，也请大家加入到这个打击假冒伪劣的行列中来，共同捍卫您的应得权益。

非常支持老大，感觉太激动

看完帖子了，单感觉还是有点不好这样去说 个人意见不做参考，

如果LEO是伟大的公司，那么没有公司不伟大。

原文由 sysmith 发表:
如果LEO是伟大的公司，那么没有公司不伟大。

Some thoughts out of what I had experienced at work as a service specialist at Carl Zeiss ShangHai during my stay from March, 2008-Feb, 2009

1, it was a very good idea that to establish a Carl Zeiss organization in china, china is a very big market with up to 300 columns of EM sold annually, china market deserves to be a stand alone branch at least or even leads other branches close by, but not just to be a profit center or a sub branch under Singapore Carl Zeiss.

2, Zeiss Singapore (SEA) let all his Chinese employees sign contracts with Carl Zeiss ShangHai, but leave all management/orders coming from Singapore. Zeiss Shanghai only takes care of the offices space of all NTS staff in ShangHai, Beijing and Guangzhou, the labour related legal issues around like employment contracts and their financial services majorly issuing salaries.

This type of setup is no doubt very convenient and quick for Zeiss to gain his infrastructure, but in fact had caused huge confusion amongst all employees and even low confidence and suspicion amongst the customers.

Remote control from Singapore to China like this has very low efficiency, spare parts order turn around time at 1month al so, only 2-3 percent systems are on the service contracts, a quotation turn around time internally is at 1 month al so, plus the turn around time externally at the customer side; totally it would take 3 months to get a single job done.

Staff training is slow, harsh and not functional, service engineers suffer to pick up knowledge on time, they go on their own soon after the Singapore factory training and had to learn everything by their mistake on site.

Many customers had refused to accept new engineer come on site to touch their instrument, a few of them specially required engineers to provide their qualification and service period certificates before they allow an engineer to come on site and touch the machine.

Spare parts prices are copied directly from Singapore list, therefore the prices are not suiting China market at all. Almost every customer complained the high cost of Zeiss spares, some customer called Singapore salesman greedy and bad after they paid for the high cost.

Knowledge transferring to the end-users is not in place at all, only lucky customers may have got the factory training, most of them obtain very limited operational and maintenance knowledge from the installation engineer, but not sufficient at all; damages were incurred by the users when operation blindly due to this bad knowledge transferring. 

Remote control from Singapore to China may work if all infrastructures are in place and functional, but that is not the case, not even close! Remote control to China from Singapore had caused chaos because nothing is set up.

Management comes from Singapore shows up rarely and rapidly in ShangHai office, their offices are empty most of the time. Senior managers, directors and country managers who wear top suites stay in 5 stars hotel only, comparing to the service and sales engineers having RMB100 daily allowance and lodging under RMB300 places, they belong to a different world, and they speak also like from a different world.

There was absolutely no meeting or gathering up held between service staff and service manager, the service manager showed up in the shanghai office majorly for the meeting with sales and directors.

Pro-active way of service is not achievable, as a service engineer must report everything back to the service manager and get approval before he can act or even just make a statement in front of the customer, usually the response from the service manager is slow and never in time.

Service engineer got warning from his manger for mentioning something like internal information to the customer.

Huge communication problems internally, service engineers felt stranded when customer phoned in, because they have no authority to make any action or statement, eventually they just forward everything to the manager and wait for command for further actions. Engineers’ suggestion upwards to the managers got no response or diplomatic ones.

Management have no intention to listen to their employees, they operate in their own vacuum, gazing at sales numbers only. When complains received from the customers, the free of charge (FOC) parts and labour are the answers to just cease the fire.

Customer got used to this, they communicated each other and they all complained for something just to get the service done for free, service engineer who try to charge the customer got warning from top.

When complain of a service engineer reached the management, despite what the reasons are, another “good” engineer was then dispatched to replace the “bad” one and get the job done, “bad” and “good” engineers have no overlapping on site, “bad” ones hardly get chance to be sent back to the same customer again.

3, Zeiss NTS announced in the market that Zeiss is on its own doing the market now since 2008, but at the mean time appointed large amount of agencies in various areas in China to represent Zeiss again to sell in China. This had caused even bigger confusion and suspicion in the market, users are saying they don’t trust this so-called Zeiss at all; they’d rather not put any faith on Zeiss until they see physical evidence that Zeiss is different than before!

Sum:

Zeiss had gained his very bad name in its ten year’s of existence in China; unfortunately the first appearance of Zeiss at 2008 did not make it better, on the contrary, now the Zeiss name is even more down than before:

-Leospore led by P.K.Poon left a very bad name in china, the scandals involved cheating customer’s money etc, but now Zeiss has appointed most of Leospore people in its top management, and customer only knows Leospore is back in china now, just with different business cards. The market treats this with extra caution.

-Taiwan Instrument Company (TIC) led by Arthur Lee had even a worse name, but Zeiss SEA attempted to re-appoint the major group of TIC service team back, fortunately did not implement. But TIC sale guys were appointed. The customers treat this with extra caution too.

-SII, the Japanese agency was almost appointed just before Zeiss came in himself, so its distributorship was well advertised but didn’t happn; this had left a gap of explanation to the market, various versions of rumors were widely spread over China which destroyed Zeiss brand even more.

-In the customer’s eyes, after all Zeiss agencies had failed through in China market all along the years, previous agency’s people once again came back with a Zeiss shirt and took over the market with different business cards, the so called “Zeiss fact” is nothing less than a joke.

-During the past 10 years, Zeiss had made Singapore to sell in China, made Taiwanese to sell, attempted to make Japanese to sell, there was also some Zeiss Australian agency who had sold few systems into china through Hong Kong somehow. The market is seriously questioning: when Zeiss is really going to become real to China, set up a real office in China and make use of Chinese to sell and service in their own country and to their own people?! The market’s feeling is described as deep disappointment, cautious and suspicion.

-Zeiss did sold round about 20 new systems in china; it’s a big number if not comparing with Jeol/Hitachi/FEI with up to 130 each, it’s a great achievement if all systems sold clean without the bribery to the buyers and other under table deals.

With a quite mature EM market shared by Jeol, Hitachi and FEI, Zeiss’s emerge opens up new opportunities to those who wish to get rich through instruments under deals, Zeiss salesman admitted in the internal meeting that they feels strongly this trend and had no problems to satisfy those to just get the sale.

On the other words, Zeiss had slowly but sharply grew his another name as a potential routine of “under table money gaining” supplier.

-Besides the “under deal”, Zeiss’s reputation is also seriously challenged by his “swop deal”; or “cheating” instead.

University of Science and Technology of Beijing (USTB) has a problematic Supra55 FESEM for many years; they finally had enough and replaced it with a new Supra. The faulty one took a trip through Singapore and was sold right back to the next door-University of Chemistry of Beijing (UCB) as a demo system.

The system appeared to be problematic from day 1 of installation, installation engineer who realized the “swop” by recognising the serial NO. of the instrument was told strictly to keep shut by the salesman.

Base on above, I think Zeiss China’s image could be descried as one or all of the images below:

1, the one wants eggs so much that cut the chicken to get it;

2, the ostridge who stick his head into the sand to escape from its predator;

3, the one who try to steal the bell, but scared of being heard because of the noise the bell may iccur, simply just shut his own ears;

这是给zeiss总部的反馈信件吗？仔细看了几遍，有很深的感触，也对我心中对zeiss、对新加坡人的疑问给出了部分答案。
1、在2008年和zeiss中国的接触中，总感觉zeiss的维修服务流程在某些环节中存在问题，最大的怀疑是国内工程师和新加坡之间存在无效的沟通。如向工程师要备件，经过几次催促，工程师答复已经提交给新加坡但新加坡方面迟迟没有答复。
2、关于工程师，从LEO Pte（即leospore led by P.K.Poon，曾在网上查询过，好像其在新加坡的办公地点和现在zeiss新加坡的办公地点不同，因为听说是zeiss收购了leospore，但现在还不清楚为什么两者的办公地点会不一样，难道改变了办公地点？）到TIC再到zeiss中国，接触了不少zeiss的服务工程师，感觉几乎没有让用户值得信赖和可靠的工程师。要么对电镜有一定的了解但缺乏维修经验，要么有一定的维修经验但缺乏对电镜的基本了解。其中有几位应该是有相当的发展潜力的，但似乎zeiss无意于花精力对工程师进行培训。
3、关于维修价格，确实很离谱，不符合中国市场实际，如维修工时费200美元/小时，几乎是其他厂家的1倍还多。我曾经拿此开玩笑，但看到工程师的待遇（RMB100 daily allowance and lodging under RMB300），我觉得这不仅仅是玩笑了。当然，这是zeiss的规定，用户无法干预公司的内部制度。但问题是，用户付出了这么大的代价，zeiss不应该派遣一名工程师到用户现场，用了一周时间还加班加点，却无法解决用户的问题。说实话，工程师本身的责任心还是很强的，这是我认同的一点。但对于用户来说，工程师只有责任心是远远不够的。我现在还没有想明白zeiss采取这种做法的理由在哪里，难道zeiss真的把用户现场当作其培训工程师的基地？
4、既然zeiss内部的交流都这么困惑，所以我理解了用户和zeiss之间的交流存在困惑应该是常态。我不知道G先生（听说是zeiss的亚太负责人，网上查询结果好像曾经担任过FESEM项目的account manager）的答复中“I will come back to you shortly”的shortly的时间是多长，只是可以确定，在zeiss的某些人员当中，shortly这个英文单词的意思是至少4个月。还有那位因有很多好建议而重返zeiss的C先生（我这台机器的验收签字人和代表leospore的服务协议的签字人），你真的没有必要通过用户转告我zeiss在中国已经自己开展业务了，因为之前我已经联络到你的同事，为什么不亲自打个电话告知我信息呢？真的有必要通过用户转告吗？如果你说你之前真的不知道还有我这样的zeiss用户，我只能说我这样的用户还真的可以有。因为机器验收单上的签名是不会改变的。而且，这样做的一个隐患你可能还没有意识到，将来可能会发生的用户与zeiss的诉讼中，你是No.1，除非那时你已经不在zeiss了。
5、关于“Leospore led by P.K.Poon…..the scandals involved cheating customer’s money etc”，已经不是第一次了。LEO Beijing（不是现在的zeiss beijing）就已经发生过了。这种事情的根本原因在于zeiss在与中国代理商之间的矛盾中，中国代理商把用户作为筹码和垫脚石，而使中国用户受到极大的伤害，尤其是前LEO用户。这种伤害对于用户来说太深太深，我估计30年内是无法修复的。我也估计，如果上面的情况继续延伸，类似的事故还会再次发生。因为zeiss没有任何诚意考虑用户的处境，其在LEO代理时代遗留的历史问题从来就没有考虑采取措施来解决。最起码一点，zeiss连口头上的对以前的用户表示道歉的意思都没有。还在回复用户邮件中大谈什么“……..in China with a varety of distributors and service organisations. This has created confusion and miscommunication in the past and was certainly some times difficult for our customers.”。
6、关于demo机，如果真的是这样的情况，作为用户我彻底无语。不知道这样做是否得到zeiss总部的授权。只能说现在的zeiss已经不是以前的zeiss了。
    综上所述，现在的zeiss已经根本无从为用户考虑，甚至于对用户连最起码应该具有的尊重都没有了。难道在zeiss以前的内部斗争中，顺利一方还不如失败一方，真的很想知道这顺利一方在斗争中是如何取胜的。不管是杀鸡取卵、把头埋入沙堆的鸵鸟还是掩耳盗铃这些词语都不足于来描述现在的zeiss。
悲哉，zeiss！

原文由 sysmith 发表:
如果LEO是伟大的公司，那么没有公司不伟大。

支持！绝对的支持！

支持一下。